Season 2, Ep. 1: Shared Power on Nonprofit Boards with Genita Robinson
“‘[Hoarding power] can feel safe for you… but it’s not safe for everyone else.” - Genita Robinson
We’ve invited seasoned consultant, Genita Robinson, to join me for an in-depth conversation about her work supporting nonprofit organizations and boards.
Genita is well-versed and experienced in creating and working with boards of directors who are rooted in equity and thinking about power in progressive and abundant ways.
In this episode, Genita details some common challenges boards face, plus a handful of solutions you might consider if you’re part of a board (or if you work within an organization that maintains one).
We also dig into the very common fear of losing power and control that’s sometimes hidden behind “urgent” decision-making, the importance of allowing for dissent and disagreement, and what to do if your Executive Committee is making all the decisions behind closed doors.
Listen to the Full Episode
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
[2:26] - The “critical friend” your board of directors might need
[7:04] - Shared Power means growing through partnership (i.e. reframing competition)
[9:33] - Hoarding power might feel safe for a few… but not all
[13:32] - The men v. The moms: When the board does NOT share power
[15:20] - There was dissent, but everyone felt heard
[18:30] - Why regular “executive sessions” are necessary (but NOT committees)
[19:56] - What to do if the board has regular “urgent” sessions
[23:17] - What to do if a board chair is hoarding power
[28:04] - What to do if there’s a struggle with hierarchy
[33:55] - Final words of wisdom for board members who want to share power
Featured On The Show:
Genita C. Robinson is the Principal and Founder of GCR Consulting LLC, an MBE/WBE certified nonprofit capacity-building consulting practice. GCR Consulting’s expertise includes board training, nonprofit partnerships, leadership development, and strategic planning. Genita trains and coaches governing boards, advisory boards, steering committees, and young professional boards.
Genita personally serves on the board and Budget, Audit, and Investment Committee of the ACLU of Illinois. She previously held leadership positions on the boards of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Leadership Greater Chicago’s Fellows Association, and Cook County Justice for Children. Genita has a depth of experience in the nonprofit, for-profit, and government sectors and maintains a broad network of mission-focused institutions and service providers to which she can connect clients. A sample listing of GCR Consulting’s clients can be found on their website. Born in Englewood on Chicago’s South Side, Genita has lived in the South Loop for over two decades.
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Full Episode Transcript:
Mia (00:00):
Alright, welcome Genita. I'm so happy to have you here on the Shared Power Podcast.
Genita (00:05):
<laugh>. I'm excited to be here, Mia. Thanks for having me.
Mia (00:09):
Awesome. Well, um, I know that there are a lot of people who are looking forward to this conversation about boards of directors. I get these questions about shared power and shared leadership in nonprofits with boards all the time. So I am thrilled to have an expert like you talk through what it means to, um, have a board of directors that's really rooted in equity and is also thinking about power in, in progressive and abundant ways. So let's go ahead and get started. I'd love for you to just share with our audience a little bit about who you are and who are your people.
Genita (00:46):
N Robinson, you refer to me as she her. I am a Chicago based consultant to nonprofits. I do a lot of work around capacity building board training, as we're gonna talk about a lot today. Leadership development, either individual coaching or cohort based leadership development, strategic planning, and then work on nonprofit partnerships like long-term or permanent partnerships. Who are my people? I'm going to answer that in a couple ways, right? I mean, so my, like people by blood are folks who were refugees from the south of Mississippi who came up to Chicago as part of the Great migration. So all my grandparents were based on the south side. I grew up on the south side, but also in the western suburbs. My mom was a single parent and took advantage of a low income housing voucher so that we could go to some pretty great public schools out in the suburbs. But my people professionally and the people that I do this work for are really bipoc led nonprofits. In particular, those that are going through changes either by choice or by circumstance. And because of that work I also oftentimes partner with funders or trying to work with that group of nonprofits or other capacity builders like nonprofit associations or other nonprofit organizations that do capacity building.
Mia (02:15):
Great. Wonderful. And just for the audience, in case you don't know what Bipoc means, it stands for black indigenous people of color. So yes. All right. Well, tell me more about how you support nonprofit organizations, uh, here in Chicago. What are some of the, the services that you offer, um, and the support you give both formally and informally?
Genita (02:39):
So I touched on kind of like the big four earlier, right? The board training, the leadership development, the strategic planning, and the partnerships. I will just say in general, like I am or try to be a thought partner to my nonprofit clients, a safe space where they can kind of talk about all the issues that are going on and I can either say like, oh, here's what I can help you with, or here's another resource, or here's another consultant that you should maybe be talking to to get help on this. I also really see myself as sometimes that critical friend. I often say to my clients, right, I'm holding up a mirror and reflecting back things that you're telling me or that I'm hearing from your stakeholders. And they can decide how to take that in, how to receive that information and how to act upon it or not act upon it if that's their choice.
Genita (03:34):
And the work that I do though, kind of in kind of practical terms, you know, board training. So I love to work with boards over a series of time. I will do workshops for, as I mentioned, some of these other capacity builders where I'll talk to a group of nonprofits at one point in time. But I really love to go deep with boards where I do like a pre-assessment where I interview all the board members and get a sense of their motivations for being on the board, what they're trying to contribute, and then design a curriculum over say a year period to sort of help them meet their goals and be their best selves as a board with leadership development. I really love working with cohort-based leadership development. I'm working right now with the Family Foundation and they have a group of grantees, they call it their impact recovery, educational Impact recovery grantees for tutoring either in school or afterschool programs that are helping kids in particular recover from the losses during covid.
Genita (04:36):
And we've created a peer learning community, and I love those spaces. I'm not an educational expert. I did work at the Chicago Public Schools, but being able to work with these educational leaders and help them figure out, okay, here are the topics that we wanna talk about. Here's how we build relationships with each other so we can be vulnerable about our needs and learn from each other in an authentic way. I really love that work with the strategic planning work that I do. I really like to talk with organizations when they're going through some sort of change, whether they're looking to grow in terms of the number of people they're serving, the geographic area that they're serving, or some sort of inflection point in the organization. And really talking about how they can marshal the current resources, get more resources to really focus in on whatever growth it is that they're trying to achieve.
Genita (05:33):
And then with partnerships, this is kind of a wonky area as someone has described to me. I, I mean, I feel like it's so essential and should be part of everyday conversation, but I like to advise nonprofits who are looking to explore, implement long-term partnerships. And that can be something like sharing space with another nonprofit. Mm-Hmm. It could be sharing a staff person, like maybe you can't afford your own in-house accountant, but you could split it 50 50 with another nonprofit. It could be a full out merger between two nonprofits. It could be a program collaboration, but anything that really is focused on furthering the mission impact of the nonprofits involved. 'cause it's all about, right, the, the mission in who you're trying to serve and what problem you're trying to solve in terms of these partnerships. So I'll help nonprofits either kind of negotiate a partnership or think about how to properly implement one in terms of making sure that they're being really thoughtful about how they're coming together as two organizations. And surprisingly, or not surprisingly, often the big issue and that doesn't get enough attention is culture. Yeah,
Mia (06:46):
Of course culture eats strategy for lunch, right? That's the <laugh>, right?
Genita (06:52):
Oh, I've heard eat strategy for breakfast. I dunno.
Mia (06:54):
<laugh> breakfast, I'm
Genita (06:55):
<laugh>, right? It might be all three meals, right? It might be.
Mia (06:58):
You're right, you're right. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Well that's a great, I mean, especially the wonky area. I love living in the, in the wonky, right? To me, that definitely speaks to how we can help organizations think about what, you know, looking at power as abundant and how when bringing resources together, they can both grow, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> instead of shrink. Yes. Which I think oftentimes is the, is the idea around, you know, working with someone else, what do I lose, right? Or what do we lose versus how do we actually both grow?
Genita (07:32):
And that thinking about in terms of shrink or competition, right? I mean, we're all supposed to be in this because we're trying to better the world in some way. So how do we find like where we're aligned in that Yeah. To make a difference,
Mia (07:45):
Right? And truly solve the issues, right? We used to always talk about this. I don't hear people saying it so much anymore, I'm not sure why. But the point of nonprofit work should be to put yourself right out of business, right? So we don't wanna just perpetuate <laugh> some systems that keep the problem to keep it turning, right? What, what are we doing to work together so that we can not even need to focus on, on, um, on the, the problems because they no longer exist. So, you know, the working definition we have of shared power here for the podcast and at Freedom Lifted is that we're making a conscious and intentional effort, right? To um, make sure that everyone, regardless of identity, right, regardless of class, race, sexual orientation, gender, age, geographic location. That's just really important. I think in Chicago, a city with a legacy of, of disparities based on geographic location that has been defined by race, right?
Mia (08:45):
Um, we wanna make sure that everyone, we're working towards everyone, every neighborhood, right? <laugh>, every child, regardless of of identity has the resources, you know, that they need to thrive, has, um, is seen and heard, you know, seen and recognized for their inherent value. They are part of decision making that is relevant to their lives. They are, they have choices. They have agency around what happens in their lives and in their families and their neighborhoods. And of course that everyone is safe both psychologically and physically. So when we think about this idea of shared power and the role of boards, boards of directors to provide governance, right? Uh, and leadership with within a nonprofit structure, what has your work taught you about how boards see and understand power and where do they struggle maybe seeing it as abundant? And what has been some of the ways that you've seen them really thrive because they have been able to embrace, even for a short period, this idea of power as abundant. So we'll start with the challenges first. How about that <laugh>? I know I gave up
Genita (09:54):
<laugh>, I was like, those are some big questions Mia. Yeah, those are some, um, but challenges. So I will say, and this is, it's hard for people to hear this, but oftentimes the biggest challenge that I see is one of fear. Because so often where you see someone on a board, and oftentimes it's maybe the board chair, sometimes it's the board chair working in partnership with the ED or CEO in the nonprofit where they are unwilling to share power 'cause they are just afraid. They're afraid of like, well what are these other board members gonna ask? What are they gonna want to do? Right? What are they gonna suggest? Right? It's just, it's fear of the unknown. And if you can kind of control, if you can control the information, if you can control the decision making, right? It can feel safe for you, but it's not safe for everybody else around the table.
Genita (10:51):
It's not in the best interest of the people that you're serving through the organization because you are missing out on all the richness of the people who are serving on that board. So oftentimes I see it around fear, right? The other times I see it just in terms of, you know, people can default to efficiency, right? What's quick? Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. What's fast, right? You know, if I just decide this as a board chair and I don't kind of bring other people in, or sometimes it's not just the board chair. A lot of boards have what's called executive committees, which is usually made up of just the officers on the board. And in almost 95% of bylaws it will say like, the executive committee can act on behalf of the full board when it's necessary in between meetings, right? Good bylaws will say the executive committee can act in these specific areas in between meetings, right?
Genita (11:48):
Otherwise you call a meeting. But what you'll see in a lot of boards is you'll see the executive committee acting as the board, right? And they are not the board, they're committee of the board and, uh, oftentimes manufactured emergencies because somebody wasn't planning in, in advance or just not, again, like that efficiency desire of like, no, we just need to call a meeting even though it wasn't on the annual calendar so that we can get the input from the full board and this decision happen. And you get the executive committee acting. Sometimes it's a little bit more hidden in that you'll see sort of power exerted by maybe people who've been on the board the longest. Sometimes it's committees like, I'll, I'll be honest, when I join a board, I oftentimes ask to sit on the budget or finance committee. 'cause there's almost always gonna be decision making in the budget and finance committee, right?
Genita (12:47):
Sometimes beyond budget and finance, right? And I've been on those committees where either I, or sometimes like the other people will say like, this isn't really a decision for the finance committee. Like this is something we should be talking about in the full board. Or something that belongs under the purview and other committee to discuss and bring to the full board. But yeah, you see a lot of power in budget or finance committees. You see, it's, again, sometimes it just in terms of the length of time that people have been on the board where like new people, because there hasn't been good orientation, they don't really kind of know the way the board operates. They don't necessarily feel comfortable about when they can speak up and when they can question something, when they can ask for things to slow down. Right? And so it, yeah, you see just weird hierarchies.
Genita (13:32):
I oftentimes talk about, I served on a board once and I saw like two distinct camps. I saw the men and the moms and the men, not surprisingly had been lawyers or worked in finance, private equity. And the moms had come through like the grassroots area of the organization. And the men had more leadership positions, right? Officer positions, chairing committees. And I think, you know, I'm not like a genius. I know a lot about boards and I have a lot of expertise and I can see a lot of things that maybe aren't apparent to others. But the reality was, at the time, I was not a man or a mom at the time, <laugh>. And so I was like, this, this, this is not quite right. And I had been a lawyer, <laugh>, I have a law degree and I practiced law. And so, you know, I'm not afraid to speak up and I'd served on other boards.
Genita (14:22):
And so I felt comfortable speaking up and I was like, this is, this dynamic is a little bit off. So that's kind of where you see some of the challenges, right? These committees that have kind of run amok beyond kind of their actual purpose of board chair kind of hold on too much control hierarchies because of like when people join the board and how long they've been on, or just sort of the way they came up through the organizational path and their professional background sometimes causes disparities in the way that power is enacted on boards. So that's some of the challenges. <laugh>
Mia (14:59):
<laugh>. Well, yeah, that just a few right? <laugh>, it's, it's so enlightening and, and I love the way you laid out these challenges you've seen. Um, I wanna come back to a little bit later. Just, you know, what you would recommend to places that are experiencing some of those issues. But before that, I'd love for you to tell a story about where you've seen a board thrive. And it, it doesn't have to be their entire lifetime of that board, but where you saw a board really embrace a shared power ethos, whether they knew they were doing it or not, they weren't necessarily calling it that necessarily, but you saw them really share power amongst each other or, or lead the organization into sharing power, you know, in community. What's a great example?
Genita (15:47):
So I served on the board of an organization called Jane Adams Juvenile Court Foundation that later transitioned into Cook County Justice for children. And this organization, I think one we benefited from the fact that one of the board chairs was a woman, Ann Cohen Donnelly now retired, but she'd been a professor at Kellogg, which she taught and wrote a lot about boards. But from the very beginning it was thoughtful. And I mean, and when I say from the beginning, so when I was recruited to join the board, they reached out to me and somebody on the board had recommended me. And they said like, here's who recommended you, here's why they recommended you. I met with the board chair and the executive director. And so the board was involved in the recruitment, not just the executive director when I joined the board, right? We had a conversation about the committees in which committees I might wanna be on.
Genita (16:42):
The board had really clear succession planning. And so it wasn't that like there were perpetual board chairs, right? There was a rotation of folks and new people were put into the pipeline, okay, you're gonna be on this committee and then you would end up chairing a committee and then you might be an officer. And so there was pathways to leadership, right? But beyond the leadership, we all had a say. I'm trying to think because I think with the, the transition between the two organizations, I probably served on this board for more than eight years, maybe close to a decade. I can't ever remember a time when the executive committee of that board ever made a decision rather than the full board, right? There was never a situation where they felt like there was an emergency and they had to step in for the full board as executive committee, we would have good discussions, like robust discussions.
Genita (17:39):
Everybody felt like they could chime in and give their opinion. And we, when we took votes on things, sometimes there is dissent, sometimes people <laugh> voted no, which was fine, right? Like they felt like their voice had been heard and they just didn't agree with the final decision, which was fine. But then they as an organization, they upheld it, right? That was, it was okay, you know? 'cause once you do decide like it's a decision and you support it as the board. And so I came away from those meetings, right? Feeling engaged, feeling clear on also like the work that we were doing in the boardroom and how it related to the actual mission of the organization, which was around juvenile justice and child welfare and advocacy in Cook County to make the system better. So there was just a lot of clarity, right? And I wanna talk about one other thing.
Genita (18:31):
'cause I've mentioned the executive committee and then I wanna talk about executive session, right? Which is different. So executive session is when boards meet separate from staff, including the executive director. And we regularly went into executive session. And this can feel a little weird because it can feel like it's something that's going on that's like not transparent to the staff, but here's why it's needed and here's why it should happen regularly. So it's mostly needed at least once a year. So you can evaluate the executive director. But in terms of like providing feedback, it might be helpful to have that, those conversations throughout instead of just once a year saying like, oh, here's all the things that have happened this year that we wanna talk about. But executive session is like a great opportunity for boards to hold board members to hold each other accountable and to sort of ask like, should this person still be on the board? We haven't seen them in a long time. Should somebody be reaching out to them to find out if they're actually committed to staying on this board? So I'm a real fan, I'm not a fan of executive committees, but I'm a big fan of regular executive sessions.
Mia (19:37):
Uhhuh. Yes. Yes. Right. Well, I have a, a few, I'm gonna have some rapid fire questions for you now, right? Okay. Like some, some ask Genita. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> advice things, right? Some of the, the, the issues that I hear boards, boards having or I see boards having, uh, or organization, board and staff together, right? So you said something about that emergencies <laugh>, right? There's manufacture, use the term manufactured emergencies sometimes, right? Um, what should a board do if they're finding that they have an urgent session <laugh> every month or every other week they're, they're meeting. So I've seen this happen, right? Where there's just like issue after issue and it's not necessarily, there's certainly, you know, maybe the pandemic is happening, there's some major changes happening in the world that is gonna impact, uh, the functioning of a board that withstanding right? But just normal, normal day-to-day is always feels urgent and emer, you know, and, and it's an emergency situation. So if a board is finding itself, meeting all the time trying to put out fires, what should they be doing? What is, what should they be asking themselves?
Genita (20:49):
Oh, that's a great question. So I guess the first thing that I would ask of that board is what power have you clearly delegated to your staff leadership? And is it at the appropriate level? Because if they're meeting that often, right? Are things coming up that really the staff should be able to decide, but the board hasn't given them the power to do so. The board for some reason is holding on to power in a way that sounds unhealthy. And sometimes you'll see that, you know, I talked about organizations being like in transition or inflection point when an organization starts, right? A founding board right, is often meeting more often and they're often right volunteers in doing some of the work of the organization in addition to being board members. And it can be hard sometimes to let go of that to, you want to stay in the, in the kind of the weeds and the day-to-day day operation.
Genita (21:41):
So I would say my first question would be like, what power have you or haven't you delegated to the staff? Sorry, it's not a rapid fire answer, but <laugh> and then <laugh>. Exactly. And then I, I guess I would say, what are you talking about when you're actually regularly scheduled to me? Because are things coming up around finances? So you should be looking at the finances at every board meeting and you should be looking at, right? The income statement, right? The budget versus actual cash flow balance sheet, which shows your assets and liabilities. And when you're looking at those things, they can tell you if something's about to go wrong. Like if you're about to run out of money in the next two weeks, right? It's not, it shouldn't be a surprise, right? Like that you run outta money in two weeks. You could, you know, and also like with the assets and liabilities like that could tell you, I know for a lot of social service organizations there is the challenge, right?
Genita (22:33):
Of government contracts and the delay of government payments. But again, those things aren't surprises, right? Like a, it's predictable. B like if you're looking at the finances, you should see that. So I would really, I would ask a board that's always meeting for emergency sessions. Like, okay, what power have you delegated to the staff? And also what are the things that you're talking about at the regular meetings that really should tell you that something's about to happen that you need to prepare for? And of course then there are things that you can't prepare for, like the pandemic,
Mia (23:06):
Right? Right, right, right. And I know I said rapid fire, but you know, this is complicated stuff, so we have to take our time through it. But I do have two more questions around this. These issues I see coming up for boards a lot. So you mentioned earlier as well about controlling board chairs. I don't know, maybe some people out there have seen this <laugh> and often this is not a board chair or someone who has become a board chair who has, who wants to be, you know, controlling. They're not, they didn't go in saying, you know, I want to be the all powerful leader of this organization and I won't tell anybody anything and I'm gonna make all the decisions myself Right behind closed doors. But like you said, because of maybe feeling it's more efficient or maybe fearing that loss of control over what will happen if there are too many cooks in the kitchen, right?
Mia (23:58):
<laugh>, so they keep all the cooks out of the kitchen and ruin the recipe, right? <laugh>, but what is it, what, what would you recommend to a nonprofit that is finding that they have a board chair that is, uh, hoarding power, either consciously or unconsciously, or even that executive committee, because we can expand a little bit to that. Maybe it's not just one person holding power, but it's a very small little nucleus, right? Of people holding power and not sharing that decision making with other folks. So what would you recommend to a nonprofit that has that experience or to a person in that position who is finding it that they've gotten that feedback?
Genita (24:40):
So this will sound self-serving, but sometimes it's helpful to bring in an outsider, right? To bring in a consultant who can talk to all of the board members and gather feedback and give an assessment as to what's going on and provide some coaching for that board chair around, right? How they let go of things and how it will be okay if they let go of some things. And I'll tell you why. Sometimes it does take an outsider because I've been on a board where there was definitely like this distinction hierarchy between newer people and people who've been on for a while and newer people, I won't kind raise myself as young, right? Anymore. But there were people who'd been on the board literally almost as long as I'd been alive. Like, so it was, you know, that sorts of distinctions in terms of length of service.
Genita (25:25):
And they did an internal board survey and the results, which they would talk about, they never shared the results like transparently, but they would talk about these results. And I remember having a conversation with the board chair, I can't remember exactly what it was over, and it doesn't really matter, but she said to me, oh, you're, you're not understanding. Like, you know, and she tried to explain it again. And I was like, no, no, no. I was like, I understand you. I am disagreeing with you <laugh>. Like, and, and, and this was a word. There were a lot of lawyers. And I think too often, like you're used to like, oh, I can persuade anybody to agree to my point of view. And I'm saying, no, no, no, you're just not persuading me. Like I think you're wrong. Like, I think you're, it's not in the quality of your argument.
Genita (26:16):
It's not in my bully to understand, right? It is just you are trying to hold on to this power, and I am saying this is why people are feeling frustrated to show up to these meetings and feel like they don't have a say. Um, so I think it sometimes says take kind of an outsider to sort of say that at times. Um, yeah. Or you know, I, and there there are other board members like me who like show up and say like, ah, this is not right, like <laugh>. Um, but yeah. And I think it's hard, right? We're human beings and my nature change can be hard for us, especially change that we're not implementing. And so for these board chairs, we're trying to hold on like it's a little bit of like counseling of like, it'll be okay and it's actually like, you'll feel better if you let go of some of this, right? You're carrying a really heavy load and why do you feel like you have the burden to carry this all alone?
Mia (27:08):
Yeah. Great. This is I agree. Definitely having, I love that <laugh>, I understand you. I just think you're wrong <laugh> that clarity because I, and, and being okay with disagreement, right? And seeing disagreement, particularly over not just personality driven, you know, it's, we not have conflict that's personality driven. That is we're moving into dysfunction there, right? You know, but conflict that is idea and approach driven is, can be very good for an organization. And so to be able to have generative conflict means that we have to be able to simply acknowledge that we don't see things the same way. So we need to find a third way <laugh> sometimes, you know? Right. Or we need to figure out, you know, what is gonna be what's beneath our, our beliefs about why things should be a certain way. Awesome. Okay. One more question about, uh, uh, about an issue you brought up earlier and some advice I, I'd like for you to offer nonprofits out there, when you talked about the hierarchies, right?
Mia (28:06):
Some of the informal hierarchies that can break out in a board, when you talked about the moms and the men, <laugh>, what was that example? And I, I laugh, but I know that's exactly what it was, and you being, again, this a third space, right? What would you recommend to organizations that have boards that do have people who've come in through the grassroots to be on the board? Right? I talk about a little bit with the eight conversations for shared power, the need to tell our origin stories of how we, we have come to this space of leadership. And it reminds me of this description that you have people coming in through the grassroots and people coming from very more formalized positions of power, right? Having more experience perhaps on boards, particularly like people think about corporate boards, right? And a lot of times people will be on corporate boards and they come to nonprofit boards, <laugh>, and they're trying to bring in some of those, those same ways of being not recognized.
Mia (29:08):
There's, there needs to be a difference, but folks who are less experienced might feel intimidated by that and not feeling like they can share. Or if they do share that it's not as valuable. Their, their contributions are not as valuable because they don't have that same experience in these, in these formalized spaces of leadership. What would you recommend to organizations that are struggling with hierarchies of power across the board and who really want to have an active, diverse board truly <laugh> that? Uh, because I hear class a lot in this Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, yeah. Class issues. And they really want to make sure that people who have, um, you know, from the working class, from the neighborhoods that nonprofits serve, are truly able to be part of the leadership of an organization, if not the, most of the leadership of the organization. I'm so fascinated by this because I've seen it so often.
Mia (30:06):
Either there isn't anyone from the grassroots on the board, or maybe one person comes in from <laugh>, you know, from the community served and, and joins the board and they feel very much like a fish out of water. And the rest of the board members either don't make an effort to, or don't know how to really ensure that power is shared amongst everyone regardless of their past experience or their, or their backgrounds. So yeah. So what would you, what would you recommend to, to boards that are truly trying to diversify their boards in a very authentic way and ensuring that they're able to work together?
Genita (30:40):
Yeah, I would say for those boards that are trying to, I my mind like move beyond diversity and who's around the table to like, being really inclusive and equitable in terms of like decision making one, never forget like the need for a social aspect to being on a board, right? It can be harder, right? When you're maybe meeting by Zoom, but you can do it still whether it's Zoom or in person, but have social activities for the board, right? Rather that's like if you're meeting in the evening, make sure that like there's a half an hour at the beginning, that's just for dinner and for people to talk and engage with each other. Same at lunchtime. But think about things that you can do. You know, I just did a, a board training this weekend for a school and I think they were surprised because yes, I had my slides, you know, talking about like fiduciary duties, but we did these dyads where I asked like, okay, why are you on this board and how are you contributing?
Genita (31:40):
And they had to talk one-on-one with each other, uh, in response to that question. And even folks who thought like they knew a bunch, a lot about somebody, like they learned new things about these people, about like what their motivations were. So that social aspect and that ability for board members to get to know each other, don't lose sight of that. Two, I think you have to have really good orientation for board members and part of that orientation being really explicit, you're coming onto this board, you are a board member, you have the same power and authority of every other board member, right? That like, period, end of sentence. You have the same power and authority as every other board member and don't diminish your power because of that background. And I know it can be really intimidating and I sit here, right? Yes, I have lived experience in some things, but I have like right, a depth of formalized education, right?
Genita (32:29):
From highly recognized institutions and, and I know right? Whatever space that I'm in, even though I haven't practiced law for a, a number of years, when I say like, I have a law degree from the University of Chicago, like, people were just like, oh, like they said to like, listen to <laugh>. Alright. But so much of like what drives me is things beyond that formal education and the experiences that I've had and the things that I have seen, um, throughout my decades of life. So I think right, keeping that social aspect or remembering to have it having a really good orientation. And, and I would say for folks listening to this who maybe knew or to a board and maybe come either from grassroots or through lived experience, right? You have value and you have knowledge that is worth sharing and don't be afraid to speak up and to share it. You can't force them to hear it and take it in. But definitely you are on that board because of that experience and you owe it to everyone else who's not around the table to share it.
Mia (33:39):
Oh, that's great advice. Wonderful. Thank you so much. It feels like you've addressed some of the top issues that I know, uh, nonprofit boards face. And so even though you are based in Chicago Genita, I think this conversation's gonna help nonprofit boards all over the country. So I'm really, really grateful for it. Before we end, I didn't know if there's anything else you wanted to share. Just two folks who are really looking to embrace a shared power ethos on their nonprofit boards. Um, any other words of wisdom that you wanna offer, uh, to those who are really trying to create something new in a, in a structure that can be often quite challenging? Yeah.
Genita (34:19):
Um, well one, thanks again for having me, Mia. And yes, I'm based in Chicago, although I do some work nationally, particularly with Zoom, but you know, I will, for the right projects, I will fly out to talk to people as well. I think that, you know, that final advice for folks is don't be afraid to slow things down, right? Don't be afraid to be the person to say like, wait, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this right now? Why do we have to do this right now? Right. To ask those questions. And I've been on a lot of words and worked with a lot of words, so some of the power dynamics are really apparent to me, and I can right analyze them and say like, oh, this is this issue, this is that issue. But for everybody else, like, trust your gut. If something feels a little off, something probably is a little off topic <laugh>. Right? Right,
Mia (35:10):
Right.
Genita (35:12):
You may not be able to name it explicitly, but you can talk about like what it is that you kind of are seeing and, and by speaking up and slowing things down, you would be surprised how there might be other people around the table be like, wait a second, she she, he's right. They, I can see what they are saying. Right? Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm <affirmative>, this has been my experience as well. Like, what are we gonna do about it? The last thing is, you can name something without having a solution, right? <laugh>, it's, it's okay to just say like, I'm witnessing something. And again, like asking everybody around the table like, what should we be doing about that? How should we be thinking about it?
Mia (35:53):
Awesome. Thank you so much. This is a fantastic conversation and I know that, uh, it's gonna help a lot of people be more thoughtful in their roles as members of boards of directors and maybe a few of us a little less fearful. 'cause I gotta tell you, I took, I took a couple years off from being on any boards 'cause they were <laugh>, it was so difficult. Some of the, the boards I was on and I was like, I just need a break. It doesn't feel like a, a great experience anymore. So this conversation really is encouraging me to not be so afraid of joining more boards and, uh, feeling like I have more tools to make sure that, uh, they are grounded in shared power. Oh, thank you so much Genita for joining me today to talk about your work with nonprofit boards and how nonprofit boards can really move towards more of a shared power ethos. This was a great conversation and I'm truly, truly appreciative of your time.
Genita (36:52):
You're welcome. Yeah. I hope people find this helpful. Um, as I said, like just don't be afraid to point out things that you see when you're serving on the board.